Archive for June, 2010
Here is an email I received…
IS A: Website for Sale
I have paid the seller Â£1,800 for 4 websites , including the one above. I have been sent the logins but i am still awaiting the guide which was promised & was a key part of the business. The business relies on reselling (porn – what was i thinking!) traffic through the sites. I was promised contacts and guide as they are key to the value of the websites
I am worried because all his phone numbers are off and because he keeps delaying on email. In addition, the backlground checks I have performed have been less than reassuring:
His listed address is a gay B&B in Cardiff Wales ( I suspect this is him thinking he is funny)
Web Solutions ()
118 Clive Street
Cardiff, Province CF11 7JE
He also writes emails under hollywood pseudonyms (Joanne Cusack, Stephen BAldwin etc)
Lastly, the traffic figures that I was quoted as unique users turned out to be visits.
I would really appreciate your help on this
Here is what I think…
Well Gabriella, I don’t know what to say.Â As far as the contact information it is very possible that this site was being run from a gay B&B — B&B owners often live on the property and very well might be running a website.
When you deal with the adult industry you have to understand that you are investing in an industry that is riddled with scams, fraud, and one that often lives in the underground.
Since I don’t know what was promised on these sites other than the missing guide and perhaps some contacts it is hard for me to determine exactly what has occurred here.Â The seller may have taken your money and been done with you, or he/she may be working on the guide and is just delayed.Â I am not sure exactly what kind of help you are looking for?Â How did you pay for the sites — PayPal?Â If all you are missing are the contacts and the guide then file a dispute and let the seller know you will remove it once you receive the missing pieces.
Good luck Gabriella, sorry you feel scammed and I hope it all works out for you.
As readers of my blog know I am a big fan of the forums over at Experienced-People.net run by Clinton Lee.Â Although the forum is small and still in its infancy, there are many good people over there willing to give their help to anyone who is looking to buy or sell a website.Â Some of the advice given on the forums I couldn’t agree with more, and some advice differs from my thinking/experiences completely.Â But, that is what makes a great forum — the sharing of different ideas and different opinions.
One day while doing my usual checking for new posts I come across this thread.Â The thread basically explains that Clinton has been offered $5000 to remove a (different) thread that Avid Amiri feels has the potential to hurt his business (Internet Enterprises).Â And, should he not remove the thread, he would be sued.
My initial reaction to this was what my readers might expect…Â I said that the offer should be refused — to me, this was a slippery slope. Once “hush money” is taken, where does it stop?Â When someone cannot afford the price?Â When someone does not have a legal weapon?Â Clinton did consider it for a bit, and he insisted that (should he remove the thread) the money be paid to a charity and not to him.
Clinton never did remove the thread and Avid Amiri’s legal threats continued…Â UNTIL TODAY.Â Today Experienced-People.net fanatics were happy to read Clinton’s update:
You have now changed your mind.
You contacted my host yesterday to say that you’ll now be satisfied if I “move the entire thread” to a private area. In return you agree to waive all rights against me and my company, stop the suit in the UK and drop your claim for IP and email information of posters. In that same email you continue your posturing, claiming that you could win legal action, claiming that you’ve suffered significant damage that you are going to prove in court etc.
Ahh…Â Folks, the lesson here perhaps is that when someone posts a complaint about you online do not react with guns blazing.Â AND, when someone threatens your forum or blog with legal action — follow Clinton’s amazing example; keep cool and don’t react in fear.
In the end Avid Amiri did more damages to himself and to Internet Enterprises LTD than did any anonymous post.Â Is Avid Amiri a scammer?Â I don’t know…Â Don’t think so.Â But he definately hasn’t made himself look very friendly either.Â Payoffs, legal threats, etc.Â I think everyone who buys and sells websites online, or who just does business online should take a look at the Avid Amiri thread — and join the discussions on Experienced People…Â The thread and the site provides some great lessons!
Look at a couple of emails I got from Mr. Pappas today.
From: George <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Hello Chris, I would like to point out you are using images that do not belong to you and prosecution could go into affect. I suggest you remove this falsely listing of myself and remove all tags and images. I will give you 48 hours.
Ok, prosecute away…
…and this one…
Subject: I suggest
You remove all of those allegations on G pappas or this website will get shut down. I have the authority to do so. Trust me
Well, I will take those as a threat and be sure to backup my server remotely – as I already do. But also to take a snapshot of all pages.
Funny thing to notice, these messages from Mr. Pappas Jr are coming from the SAME ADDRESS claimed to be that of “Will Ambra”. And, one comes from “George” and another from “Law”.
Here is a message from a buyer of one of Invictus7‘s PPC websites…
Thought you might be interested, it’s about SuperHealthFinder.Com. I issued a chargeback claim to my bank
and reported it to Invictus7. About 2 days ago. Even had to cancel my VISA.
Have a look at these emails (oldest at bottom). This guy is really tough. He even
threatens me with a lawyer (He’s in USA and I’m in Europe, BTW). What do u think
about this exchange of messages?
Here is the message exchange….Â This is the first message from Juha to Invictus7.
Today (23th of June) I have initiated a VISA chargeback process,
I would like to ask for a refund again. The chargeback process can be canceled if you will refund the money to my PayPal.
This is the first response from Invictus7.
Sorry I was busy and could not redpond sooner.
My refund policy is still valid and I have no problem giving a refund, but please be honest. You know I have to ask for proof if you followed my instructions because that was the refund condition. It was a very fair condition to prevent people from abusing my refund policy and buying the site just to getÂ copies of scripts, marketing materrial, info, etc. and then get their money back unfairly.
Some people plan this in advance to try to fool me and take adavntage of me being honest and offering a refund, something that others sellers don’t offer. So I had to make one condition to protect myself from buyers who are notÂ honest. That’s why the condition was “if you follow my instrcutions” , I have to request some proof if you followed.
If anyone followed my instructions, there has to be some record of it, some emails that were sent (all email programs save sent emails in Sent folder), andÂ some responses from the webmasters they contacted even if they were not interested.Â Can you please provide me this info? if you really followed my instructions
you should have it.
I saw your auction when you listed the site for sale and you wrote in your comments:
“…Â if you take a look at the original listing and what he actually
says about the guarantee, and then the beginning of my listing again, you will notice that i don’t fulfill the terms of that guarantee, because I haven’t had time to work on this site at all. So I thought it to be more honest for the original seller from my part if I will just offer the site on sale myselfÂ and not bother him about this.”
Just a week before you requested a refund you said you didn’t do anything and wanted to be honest. So what made you decide to change your mind and be unfair ?Â Is it because you read lies by user ‘yourassasin’ ?
You know, what he is doing is personal. I ridiculed him and he was temporarily suspended bybecause of me. He has a personal interest now to make me look bad and make his accusations. He knows nothing about the business. He purposely aseked you the question and said:
“I personally think you were taken” but he can not explain why you were taken and how, that makes his accusations and his opinion without any credibility. His comment scared off
people to bid on your auction because he suggested there is something wrong with it.
Please don’t blame me and don’t believe this person. He has no facts and hides behind “it’s only my opinion, not facts”, this statement allows him to say anythingÂ he wants even lies, never presenting any valid arguments or facts.
So please be reasonable and ignore what he said. You will notice that he has no facts, no valid arguments, he only wants to make me look bad to retaliate for my action against him and reporting him to Flippa. If his claims were valid he would present some facts, some logical arguments, but as you can see he always hides behind “it’s onlyÂ my opinion” to prevent being sued
for defamation. If what he said had any truth in it he would not have to hide behind clever statements he includes in his posts “it’s only my opinion”.
But he is he to take his opinion sersioulsy ? He is no expert, he only wants people to think he is an expert, for his personal gain.
I operated PPC sites for 8 years and the system works, time tested and proven to work. I stand behind it 100% and can prove anytime it works as I described in my auction. I did not made any false statementsÂ and did not even exaggerated.
I have no problem giving aÂ refund. But please be hostest.
Anyone can say it didn’t work to get money back after getting site files copies and marekting materials.
In fact 3 people already tried to do it, they even planned it from the start before they made a purchase, they figured they will claim it doesn’t work and get everything for free in the end.
One claimed he sent out thousands of emails to webmasters to make trades and no one responded, but when I asked to povide me with a list a few sites/webmasters he contacted, he said doesn’t have any.Â So how is that possible to not have any record of anything when he knew that my condition was to follow my instructions and that I will ask for for some records to prove it ? Some people just lie and want to take advantage of my refund
policy by lying about the systemn not working, but never have any record of doing anything.
My refund policy is fair. Asking for some proof you followed my
instructions is fair,Â you should have somne record of it if you did it.Â If not, then why are you trying to take advantage of my refund policy, knowing you didn’t fulfill the terms ? You said it yourself that you didn’t fullfill the terms. Why you changed your mind and want to get a refund unfairly ?
Please be honest. If you don’t want the site, have no time to run it, I can help you sell it, or I can help you to get some traffic to the site, this will increasethe value and you can make some profit on the sale, more then you paid for it.Â Even with a few visitors and few members, minimal profit from google ads and PPC, the site value will increase.
I don’t scam people, my refund policy is fair. I think you understand that I have to ask for proof if a buyer followed my instructions to quality for my refund policy.Â One week before you asekd for a refund, you said you didn’t do anything
with the site. Why you asking for a refund now knowing you didn’t fulfill terms ?
Please be honest and answer me these questions.
If you have a valid reason for a refund, I have no problem giving a refund.
But I have to ask you to explain and cancel the chargeback.
It’s not big money and I have no problem giving you a refund if you have a valid reason. Or are you just want to get the refund by being not honest?
Let me know.
This is the second message from Juha to Invictus7.
It’s sad that you only reply after I mentioned the word “chargeback”.
Before that, you remained silent although I’m certain that you received my messages. Sending an email reply, even a short one, takes maybe a few minutes. After all, you have been online enough
to even find out about my desperate, ill-advised attempt to dispose of the site by listing it on Flippa. Luckily nobody bid on it before I ended it early.
The reason why exactly I want a refund, or more accurately, why I want to CANCEL the whole deal, is that I’m NOT HAPPY with the quality of the site, the method for driving traffic to it, and finally, the way you have handled this sale as a seller (mainly non-responsiveness, I have other serious doubts about the bid but can’t verify anything).
First, in the listing you claim: “PPC sites are not only good for making money but also for generating a lot of traffic at no cost. With your own PPC search engine you will be easily able to generate thousands of visitors per day quickly and for free with little work, so you will have no expenses on advertising if you don’t want to.”
- Maybe this kind of site combined with the traffic method you sent is something that worked years and years ago, but today someone who wants to make money with this is up for a long and rocky journey. Trying to contact and convert other webmasters can be the most frustrating task one has ever tried. Certainly not “easy” or “little work” there. As an small business owner off-line, I know there to be a definite difference between “hard work” and “wasting time”. This site+method combination falls to the latter category.
Second, you say in the listing: “If you don’t like the domain or the
design, it’s very easy to change so you will be able to customize your
site to your needs without any knowledge of programming. You can also convert it to any niche market by changing categories from the admin panel. The site is powered by a great script, no less effective than the PPC scripts that sell for $1000 – $4995. So it’s a great opportunity to buy this site for below $400.”
- In reality, the script is outdated and far surpassed by even $59.95
scripts such as Inout adserver or some of the more expensive (but still cheaper than your site) full-featured AdBrite clones. This point alone makes the site “not-as-described” and objectively it gives me a right to ask for a refund, or a cancelling of the sale. Plus, on top of poor quality and outdatedness of the script, some of the main .php files seem to be encrypted, copy protected. How exactly does that make it easy to convert it to another niche market? I would say it makes it impossible.
Then there’s of course the disappearance into thin air after sale, then’s the coming back with a threatening letter, etc..
By the way, yes, I can see you have a thing going on with yourassassin, not my problem. Is this yourassassin’s site? I did put this link to my chargeback request.
How would you reply to the comments #26, #28, #32 on that page? Now that I think of it, the bid ended surprisingly early… maybe the other bidders were just your aliases…?
I will cancel the chargeback only when I see $290 on my PayPal. The way I see it, I have a right to ask for a refund on the grounds described above – regardless of the terms of your money back guarantee. If you indeed are a honest seller, you will not have a problem with that, because you want to keep your customers happy. Otherwise, I’ll let my bank, my bank’s international office, PayPal, and possibly your bank/credit card issuer/whatever it is where you transfer your money from PayPal to, fight about the money between themselves. I have nothing to lose in this matterÂ .Now, I’m off to cancel my VISA as per the requirements of VISA chargeback
This is the second response from Invictus7.
It’s clear to me now that you are just looking for an excuse to get a refund and you are making things up to achieve it.
You are making statements that you can not back up with any facts and you are exaggerating for purpose to make me and my product look bad.Â Your excuses for refund are based on your opinion, that doesn’t qualify as a valid reason to give you a refund or make the sale invalid.
The sale is valid and I delivered everything I promised in my auction ad.Â I did not made any false statements, item delivered was exactly as described, and that’s a fact that can be proven to banks and paypal.
Below is a response to what you wrote, I will explain why your claims are invalid and why anyone honest will agree with me when looking at the facts:
The reason why exactly I want a refund, or more accurately, why I want to CANCEL the whole deal, is that I’m NOT HAPPY with the quality of the site,
You saw the site quality before the purchase, you had time to test it before the purchase. This is a product you can see and test, so there was no surprises to the quality of the site, it works as described.Â The site and everything was delivered exactly as described.Â If you making claims about quality you need to be more specific and show something that is not the promised quality and not as described.Â If you can’t show it, your claims are just made up and invalid.
the method for driving traffic to it,
That’s a ridiculous statement. Trading links is a very effective and popular way of getting traffic and building backlins, the method is used by almost any webmaster.Â PPC sites give advantage over traditional link trading by making them more
effective and allowing more trades.Â The method works, was proven to work and can be proven to work any time. It works as promised and as described, but you never tried so you can’t know.Â You never said anything about not being happy with it, only now you making things up to look for an excuse for a refund.Â And if you are not happy with method of driving traffic, can you explain what exctly is wrong with this method ??
I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about this popular and commonly used method. Please explain what is wrong with it and wy millions of webmasters who trade links are wrong.
and finally,the way you have handled this sale as a seller (mainly
You are twisting the facts here. I handled the sale properly and quickly and Flippa has it on the record.Â The transfer took a week, but it was me who was waiting for you to send me affiliate codes for me to update in the files to complete the transfer.
After that the only communication from you was about a refund, nothing about support for the site.Â After your refund request I did not responded for a few days, I needed to take some time to respond properly and do some checking.Â So you maybe not happy about reponse time about a refund, but not
about after sale responsiveness that had to do with working of the site.Â Please stop twisting the facts.Â If you wanted support for the site, help with anything, you would get it fast, but you never asked.
If you are accusing me of something, it would give you more credibility to present the facts, be more precise, include dates, because you accusations are nothing but just some desperate attempt to find an excuse for a refund by creating false impression about me and the item sold.
I have other serious doubts about the bid but can’t verify anything).
Of course you can’t verify anything, you have nothing valid, so you are building your reason for a refund based on silly assumptions.Â Just like yourassasin, you made things up, assume things, but have zero facts and can’t verify anything. It’s easy to do when you don’t like someone and want someone to look bad for your personal reasons.Â So you can have your doubts, but that doesn’t give you a right to use your doubts to extort a refund.
- Maybe this kind of site combined with the traffic method you sent is something that worked years and years ago, but today someone who wants to make money with this is up for a long and rocky journey.
How would you know that if you did not even tried ????Â Do you have experience that allows you to say something like that and know what works today and what doesn’t work today ???Â If you tried it and it did not work, then you could say that and I would
give you a refund. But you didn’t do anything, so your opinion or opinion of some fake expert like yourassasin doesn’t count.Â Refunds are not gived based on personal opinions.Â On what basis you are making statement that it doesn’t work ?Â Today link trading is just as popular and used as any time in the past,
even more, because backlinks today are more important for search engines then before, there is more websites and webmasters to trade with, and every webmaster is interested in getting traffic to their site.Â So there is no reason for any webmaster to not be interested in making a trade that helps them get targetted traffic.Â Many webmasters pay to get listed on PPC sites, so most will be glad to not have to pay and just trade link with PPC site that saves them money and still lets them use PPC system to get targered traffic.Â So you statement is false, you made it up as an excuse to get a refund.Â You can’t say it’s the truth, because you never tried it and you can’t present anything that will show this method doesn’t work today.
If you have anything to backup your claim or any valid reasoning behind it, please let me know how did you came to that conclusion that it doesn’t work today and that is a long and ricky journey. How do you know ?Â Did you tried it ? You admitted you didn’t, so why you making things up now ?
Trying to contact and convert other webmasters can be the most frustrating task one has ever tried. Certainly not “easy” or “little work” there. As an small business owner off-line, I know there to be a definite difference between “hard work” and “wasting time”. This site+method combination falls to the latter category.
LOL!Â You are being ridiculous.Â If you are making claims like that, why can’t you explain why and what part of contacting a webmaster and sending a proposition for a trade is hard work and most frustratingÂ ?Â Can you show even one example when you tried and it was frustrating ?
Since the beginning of internet, website owners trade links with each other, as the most natural and easy way to get some traffic to their sites, it’s popular and smart way for every webmaster.
And now you are making claims that it’s some hard work and impossible ? Most webmasters trade link for link, but with PPC sites it’s easier because they get a link and free advertising credits, so they get much more then regular trading and are more open to it then egular trading.Â How can you talk about frustrating task, if you never even tried it, so you can’t even know their response.Â And what is so frustrating about sending a proposition to make a trade ?Â It’s the most known and popular methods that most webmasters use, and you trying to say you know better then millions of webmasters, even when you never tried ? Please stop being ridiculous.
- In reality, the script is outdated
whos reality ? your own relity you created ?Â because in reality the script is up to date, and all functions works as described.
If it is outdated then why don’t you present some facts and details ? be more specific. Why you can’t provide any proof it’s outdated ? Are you saying this because someone told you ?
and this someone has any facts and proof ? If you are making such claims, it’s your responsibility to provide evidence it’s outdated.Â Explain what is outdated, if you can’t then you are making things up.
and far surpassed by even $59.95 scripts such as Inout adserver or some of the more expensive (but still cheaper than your site) full-featured AdBrite clones. This point alone makes the site “not-as-described” and objectively it gives me a right to
ask for a refund, or a cancelling of the sale.
That’s ridiculous and invalid reason.Â Please provide details what was not as described.Â If it’s surpasses by other scripts is a matter of opinion.Â I did not only sold the script. You make a lot ofÂ statements, but can’t show anything to back up your claims, which makes your statements and accusations invalid and worthless.
Plus, on top of poor quality and outdatedness of the script,Â What is outdated ? why you don’t have any details ? you can not even explain your own accusations.
some of the main .php files seem to be encrypted, copy protected. How exactly does that make it easy toÂ convert it to another niche market? I would say it makes it impossible.
Again, it’s your opinion only, opinion you made up to find excuse for a refund.
1. The encrypted part doesn’t affact anything.
2. Converting to another niche is as easy as changing categories
from admin area, which I already explained earlier.
3. You never asked me to convert it for you or to explain or help you converti it. If you did I would convert ir for you or send detailed instructions.
So again, you have nothing but false claims and opinion.Â Everything you twist to make me and my product look bad and have excuse for a refund, but you have ZERO of any real facts or evidence for anything you say.
Courts and financial institution are not interested in opinions, but facts only. Your chargeback will be a fraudulent chargeback, against any terms, based on false accusations.
Then there’s of course the disappearance into thin air after sale, then’s the coming back with a threatening letter, etc..
Again, you are lying.
1. I never disappeared, I only took a few days to analyze what’s happening and prepare all info after you sent me refund request and filed a dispute.Â It’s also vacation time and I was on the road with kids, so few days of delay in summer time is reasonable and doesn’t mean disappearing.
2. I never sent you threatening letter. Where did I threatened you?Â I even offered you support and help to make it work for you and help you sell the site for profit. Is that threatening you ?
Anyone who gets the facts will agree wth me.Â You have no facts, just biased opinion, made up accusations to make me look bad to find an excuse for a refund.Â But the facts are clear and I will present all facts to banks, paypal.Â Just because some fake expert yourassasin decided to make a blog and post false information about me and hide under a statement: “it’s only my opinion, not facts” doesn’t mean you can do the same without consequences.
He will be dealt with appropriately very soon, so you can take his
opinion at your own risk.
How would you reply to the comments #26, #28, #32 on that page?
I don’t feel like visiting the page and reading the comments, I will visit his site soon together with my attorney and gather all info for defamation lawsuit.Â If you have a questions and want me to respond to something then ask me, don’t send me to some page with posts that do not include any facts and contain only opinion of people who have hidden agenda.
Now that IÂ think of it, the bid ended surprisingly early… maybe the other bidders were just your aliases…?
How did it ended surprisinly early ? Can you explain it what was suprising and what was early ? The auction ended exactly when it was set to end.Â So again, just some ridiculous statements from you.Â You are accusing me of many things, even using other aliases and bidding on my own auctions. This shows how you like to make up stuff without any facts just to serve your own interest and make me look bad, trying to make a scammer out of me even when you have absolutely nothing to back up your claims.
If you think you have nothing to lose, think again.Â If you are filling a chargaback and making claims to your bank and
my bank and to paypal, claims that are hurting my business, my reputation, my account status and cause me loses, and all your claims are just an opinion without any facts to back them up, there are laws that protect me from these kind of baseless claims and accusations.Â There are legal and financial consequences for the false accuser.
I will hire an attorney in your country to handle this case.Â When I file a lawsuit, I will want recompensation for my time, loses,
my attorney’s fees and legal costs.Â For you to win you will be required to provide facts and prove I did not delivered as described. You will be required to provide verifiable facts,
not opinions, not links to yourassasin’s website where he admits he doesn’t have any facts and all he says is just an opinion, opinioon based on assumptions and limited knowledge.
So you providing links to his website as evidence will not be taken as evidence or anything valid.
You will not falsely accuse me of non delivery and claiming my product doesn’t wok as described or there is something wrong with it when you never tried and ahve nothing to prove your claims.Â So far you showedÂ ZERO facts, ZERO evidence to make your claims and accusations valid.Â I have your auction on record where it shows you not only received everything
as described, but you also tried to sell it and admitted of not doing anything and not fulfilling my refund terms.Â If there was really something wrong with it you would first,
you would file dispute with PayPal and Flippa right after. But you did it only after not succesul sale and after you got misleasing info from yourassasin.Â The reasons for a refund you presented is just your opinion, not factsÂ Even Flippa agreed already by closing the dispute.Â Everything was provided and delivered as described, it’s on the record and documented and will be providedÂ to banks and to paypal.
You don’t want to resolve it by being honest, then I have no choice but to start legal proceedings as soon as I get notified about chargeback from paypal or my bank, and we will resolve it via legal system that deals with facts and not opinions, assumptions and baseless claims you presented.Â There will be financial consequences to your fraudulent chargeback and
your defamatory accusations.
Well, I will just start with the obvious.Â Invictus7 is going to HIRE A LAWYER IN YOUR COUNTRY to go through an expensive legal process to protect his $400 sale!?Â Nope.Â He just has been shown to lie like this again and again.Â He will do nothing.Â Does it make any sense that he would proceed this way?Â He could simply provide a refund and save the money and Juha would really have no complaint to be made…
I have an agreement that can help once and for all…Â Invictus7 seems to be offering his help here.Â Let’s see how quickly and easily he can get some quality websites to link to Juha’s site?Â It is easy, right?Â So just some easy work and all can be solved.Â These weblinks he gets will provide tons of quality traffic…Â Right?Â And, webmasters will be happy to exchange links with a website that has ZERO traffic and ZERO original content — because it is a PPC, right?
In my opinion (that dreaded word again) it is obvious to any experienced webmaster that this is simply a facade.Â Invictus7 has trapped people behind his “guarantee”.Â No, I am all for holding website buyers accountable — heck if you buy a site and do nothing with it, you can expect nothing…Â BUT, when something is presented as:
Once it’s setup and initial work is done, it becomes
a traffic generating machine, traffic = profit.
PPC sites are not only good for making money but also for generating a lot of traffic at no cost. With your own PPC search engine you will be easily able to generate thousands of visitors per day quickly and for free with very little work, so you will have no expenses on advertising if you don’t want to.
Then that is what the buyer should expect.Â I again send the challenge out to Invictus7 — send ONE just ONE of you’re PPC Flippa clients here who is getting thousands of visitors per day and making good money and I will apologize.Â All I am asking for is ONE.
I find it ironic that Invictus7 keeps claiming he “ALMOST got me suspended from Flippa”…Â Look here folks.Â Maybe he is ripping Flippa off of their dues so he can pay for the attorney overseas?
Here is an email I received from someone who felt like they have been scammed…
IS A:Website Sale
on May 17 i paid 4000 for the website www.pappysportspicks.com It was for sale on Flippa.com
I was shown screenshots and led to believe that the site was producing between 1500usd and 2000usd each month and it had been online for many months. I also contacted Mr. George Pappas, Jr. via skype and we had an hour long conversation about the site, the business and the potential of this website i wanted to buy. He also told me at that time that if the site did not average 1500usd for 3 months that he would refund 100% of my purchase price so it was risk free for me.
I wired the money from my bank account to his girlfriend’s bank account. Her name is Jessica Briddes. He confirmed that he received the money and then gave me access to the site. The day he gave me access he went back in and changed the passwords again before I could and locked me out for about 24 hours. Finally he returned my calls/emails and let me back in again.
It was at that time that i saw he had only 58 clients signed up and only 2 or 3 of them were actually active and paying meaning there is NO WAY this site could have ever done 1500usd in a month. He also agreed to turn over his handicapper watchdog account to me which he did not do. The site is run by EZ capper and i found out he never paid them either and that the site was barely one month old.
I have been trying to make the site work and i have added more than 100 clients but it will be a very long time to make 1500usd per month with this site. I have traded messages with George Pappas Jr. and he basically just laughs at me now that he has (and probably has spent) all the money i sent him.
He offered me 30 days or more of support which i also never got. He only helped the first few days after he got the money. What is strange is that he gave me his cell phone and he will answer a text mesaage sometimes but when i try to call he will never answer.
I know i have been scammed out of 4000 because i could have gone to EZ capper and setup a brand new site with them and i would have the same exact thing i have right now but i would have 4000usd more money.
Here are my thoughts…
I am very sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with George Pappas Jr.Â Oddly enough in my investigation of Mr. Pappas I have been forwarded emails that claim to be from YOU.Â Here they are…
Im surprised to see the owner is selling his website. I know the owner of this website he used to own the website I own now. Pappysportspicks.com His name is George ( i will not say his last name unless he gives me approval, strange because he actually just called me). I bought his old site and i paid $4000 for it, i sent the money through Western union, (that is what he requested) and one hour later he emailed me with all the details on the website and the website was in my control. So if your asking if George is for real, then yes he is from my own personal experience.
I’m going to call him back, I am surprised he is selling this site is what i wanted originally not pappysportspicks.com I might try to see if he will sell me the site if you do not buy it. Are you considering buying it?
Is this email from you? I am suspecting George is, as he has in the past with another victim, using your identity to perpetuate his scam.Â I have several emails that are allegedly from you from the email account email@example.com — are they?
I want to thank you for contacting me and joining in the fight against this scammer.Â Please let me know if you would like to be involved in the IC3 process and perhaps your funds can be recovered.
I received an email asking about macfilerecovery.net offered for sale on Digital Point…
Here is what I think…
Here is a case of real stats but dangerous business.Â From what I can tell, the stats on this site are genuine — it probably makes around $350/mth as it claims.Â The problem with this kind of site is that it is a one-trick pony.Â It relies entirely on the single affiliate program it promotes.Â The owner of this site is at the mercy of the product being promoted.
Also, WHY is the seller selling?Â The site clearly is making this income passively so perhaps the seller is concerned it will not last?Â It could just be that $350/mth is not that much money, but $5000 at once can buy a nice vacation or pay some past due bills.
So, from a numbers standpoint — $5000 is not too much to pay for a site bringing in $350/mth — and — I also believe (though have not investigated much) this to be a genuine listing…Â But, really, a site like this — how long can it last?
Here is an email I received…
IS A: Website for Sale
Gentleman by the name of Saidul Chowdhury (firstname.lastname@example.org) is selling this blog ‘network’ of 87 websites (I have the list if it will help). Sites all have AdSense, Amazon, and eBay pieces to make money. He claims they are making around $1300 per month and has a video showing some earnings.
Here is what I think…
I think you sent this to me too lat as this auction is already over? But considering these are all AUTOBLOG sites I would stay away.Â Look, the guy is claiming $1300 month TOTALLY PASSIVE INCOME.Â Why sell that for only $8000?Â Maybe he need the money really badly, but perhaps he sees a problem that he is not willing to share. And, assuming he put his best site forward (the farmville one) — and why wouldn’t he — there is nothing to indicate that there is the traffic to support his claims.Â How can you really verify the income from almost 90 blog sites.Â I am not going to look into this one deep enough to really give a final word – it is already sold – but, I think if you missed out on this one you got lucky.
When abuyer contacts me looking for help recovering his funds from a potential scammer I never know what to expect.Â Some times it is just the buyer being anxious, sometimes it is a misunderstanding, and some times — the buyer has indeed been scammed.
That is the case here.
I was contacted to look into a case regarding this Flippa auction.Â The buyer claimed that the seller had essentially taken his $4200 payment and not delivered the website promised.Â After some basic investigation into the matter I found the buyer’s claims to be true.Â I verified the payment had been made and even talked with the seller who had STILL been trying to sell hotsportsplays.com to yet another buyer.
The seller eventually admitted the issue and even revealed that there had been another victim.Â Although the seller, George Pappas Jr., didn’t take personal responsibility for the scam, he did knowingly (and unknowingly) reveal a bunch of useful information.Â And, again, he did admit to taking payment from these victims without delivering the site or refunding their money.
I talked to Mr. Pappas about coming clean on the scam and refunding those who had been burned.Â In working with the victims I was sure they would be willing to work out payment arrangements to recover their lost funds, but Mr. Pappas seemed to have no interest in returning the money, only in protecting himself.
George Pappas Jr. still has not returned any of the funds to the victims and he eventually did resell (the already 2x sold-and-paid-for) www.hotsportsplays.com to this guy.Â The sale was made on June 14th for $690…Â Mr. Pappas was nice enough to post a screenshot himself — which was found in his latest Flippa listing.
HERE IS A SCREENSHOT OF THE PAYMENT FOR THE SITE ($690) ON JUNE 14:
HERE IS A SCREENSHOT OF THE TWO PREVIOUS PAYMENTS FOR THE SITE ($4200, $1800):
These were collected from Mr. Pappas’ own listing on Flippa.Â But, in case he makes changes they have been archived online.
An IC3 complaint (I#1006111710133181?) has been filled on George Pappas Jr and over 40 pages of documentation has been obtained in the case.Â I do hope Mr. Pappas (and Ms. Briddes) will come clean and make restitution on the victims of this scam.Â If they wish toI will help them get on the right track — making restitution and heading in a direction away from online scams and into online success.
More info can also be found at Experienced-People.
What a joke! I came across this thread while participating in the amazing Experienced-People forums.Â This guy (Richard) is selling his JUNK TRAFFIC SITE in order to pay some bills and start his new, competing, JUNK TRAFFIC SITE.
WHAT IS JUNK TRAFFIC?
A junk traffic site is a site that sells what is essentially fake traffic.Â This means that web users are visiting sites they had no direct intention of ever visiting.Â This can happen several ways — for example, someone may be getting paid to “autosurf”.Â This means that a junk traffic seller pays someone like you a penny (or less) for every site you visit.Â And, in order for you to make any decent money one of your browser windows is send flying from webpage to webpage automatically; usually with about 10 seconds between them.Â So, for the person who paid $0.02 per visitor they get cheap (worthless) traffic and you get paid for letting your browser be possessed.Â The junk traffic seller keeps the difference between what he pays you to “browse” the sites and what he gets paid by the “advertiser”.
Other methods of junk traffic could be a pop-under…Â You know where suddenly a new site opens up in a browser window behind you main browser window.Â Again, giving traffic to the advertiser but based on no real desire by the user browsing the web.
Anyhow, Richard is selling mysitesubmit.com so that he can develop another junk traffic site.Â Yes, he is selling the old one to create a new one…Â AdvertiszMySite.com – a virtual carbon copy of his current site.
My friends, I ask you to PLEASE stay away from this gray internet underground of junk traffic.Â This kind of traffic presents many problems to the internet and large companies like Google are constantly working on technologies to penalize those who use these methods to promote their sites.
Here is an email I received from someone with a question about WSO sales…
IS A:Website Sale
Hi, this is not a report or anything, but just a quick question. I am seeing that WSO sites are selling like hotcakes on flippa. What exactly do they mean? If I get it correctly, they sell their ebook on WSO, and get a lot of revenue, and then after a month they sell it on flippa? They are sold in the $xxxx for the majority of them.
Here are my thoughts…
A WSO sale is a “Warrior Special Offer” which is something offered through the infamous Warrior Forum.Â Many webmasters will create a sales site and then make a Warrior Special Offer to generate sales, they then flip the site on Flippa.com and use the sales data to show revenue.Â The problem with this is that these sales are one-time bombs.Â Meaning, a few thousand dollars in WSO sales does not mean you’re buying a successful site.Â In fact, the seller of the site more often than not knows this which is why they go for the double $ kill.Â First they make money on the WSO sales, then they make money by selling a site at an inflated price based on the WSO sale.
SHOULD YOU BY A “WSO SITE” ON FLIPPA?
Well, that depends on the site of course.Â If the site offers a unique custom ebook and quality design it may be a good site — however, if you are expected to pay an inflated price based on the WSO sales that is a RED FLAG.Â Also, many MANY WSO products are just recycled garbage and really nothing new.Â They are often trying to peddle some outdated underground marketing or get-rich-quick scheme.Â So, be VERY CAREFUL.Â If you come across any particular site you are interested in let me know and I will give you my opinion.Â Thanks for the great question!